28 August 2010

People Against FCoE, Its Loud and Proud – Part 1

For those of you who are thinking of rushing into FCoE and the Cisco Nexus switches you might want to think again. There are a few people coming out against FCoE and asking why is anyone bothering ? Should I be putting it in my design portfolio ? Is FCoE a done deal just because Cisco is throwing it weight around, or does it have merit.

In fact after some research , there are so many negatives I had to put them in multiple parts.

Dell is in favour of iSCSI and thinks that FCoE is ” about as stupid as a technology could be. Vendors making it just want to generate higher margins with a new technology.”

A very old posting (from Aug 29 2007!) pointing out the FCoE was waste of space. Its an erudite and robust article covering both sides of the debate, with FCoE definitely losing. Catfight Over FCoE.

Reasons not to use FCoE include:

* FCP endpoints are inherently costlier than simple NICs – the cost argument (initiators are more expensive)
* The credit mechanisms is highly unstable for larger networks (check switch vendors planning docs for the network diameter limits) – the scaling argument
* The assumption of low losses due to errors might radically change when moving from 1 to 10 Gb/s – the scaling argument
* Ethernet has no credit mechanism and any mechanism with a similar effect increases the end point cost.
* Building a transport layer in the protocol stack has always been the preferred choice of the networking community – the community argument
* The “performance penalty” of a complete protocol stack has always been overstated (and overrated). Advances in protocol stack implementation and finer tuning of the congestion control mechanisms make conventional TCP/IP performing well even at 10 Gb/s and over.
* Moreover the multicore processors that become dominant on the computing scene have enough compute cycles available to make any “offloading” possible as a mere code restructuring exercise (see the stack reports from Intel, IBM etc.)
* Building on a complete stack makes available a wealth of operational and management mechanisms built over the years by the networking community (routing, provisioning, security, service location etc.) – the community argument
* Higher level storage access over an IP network is widely available and having both block and file served over the same connection with the same support and management structure is compelling – the community argument
* Highly efficient networks are easy to build over IP with optimal (shortest path) routing while Layer 2 networks use bridging and are limited by the logical tree structure that bridges must follow. The effort to combine routers and bridges (rbridges) is promising to change that but it will take some time to finalize(and we don’t know exactly how it will operate). Untill then the scale of Layer 2 network is going to seriously limited – the scaling argument

Note also that Silvano Gai (of Nouva now acquired by Cisco and chief cheerleader for FCoE) trying to spike the pro-iSCSI debate by pushing some process complaint into the argument about standards. Bad form there.

My favorite bit

The only argument I have heard for continuing any development in the FC protocols at all, whether that development is done at T-11 or at IETF, is to provide the means to wean all the crack addicts in the Global 2000 off of FC fabrics altogether, and as soon as humanly possible. FC SAN is simply the most expensive way to host data that was ever invented. No surprise that it came to market at a time when everyone was suspending disbelief and investing in dotcoms.

I agree completely with this point.

fcoe.com

I had a look at a Web site fcoe.com, with lots of nice information. However, it too is owned by Nouva Systems and thus Cisco.

Is there anyone else but Cisco supporting FCOE ?
fcoe-network-solutions.png

Note: Apologies for the ads in that screenshot but the Network Solutions whois server is absolutely criminal.

About Greg Ferro
Greg is a Network and Security Architect / Designer / Engineer working freelance in the UK and worked for Resellers, DotCom's, Large Corporate's and Service Providers across a variety of products & Vendors. He prefers to work for end users, believes in the life cycle, total cost of ownership and that near enough is often good enough. He likes talking about himself in the first person to feel "royal", even when hosting the Packet Pushers Podcast on Data Networking. More about Greg at http://etherealmind.com/who-am-i/ and you can follow him on Twitter.

Comments

  1. Silvano Gai says:

    it is not clear what you mean with “spike the pro-iSCSI debate”, what has iSCSI to do with FCoE?

    Also you accuse me of ‘bad form” because “I am pushing some process complaint into the argument about standards”. what does that mean?

    – Silvano Gai

  2. Greg Ferro says:

    My reading is that the article was pro-iSCSI, or at the least, negative on FCoE.

    In my current view, FC / FCoE has no value in a modern IT network and is a legacy or dead end technology that hasn’t quite reached market failure conditions.

    Your response (as shown in the article) looks or appears very much like obfuscation by attempting to run the authors concerns into a bureaucratic hole in a standards process. Thus ‘to spike’ means to put it on hold, or into a queue where the matter / topic can be delayed or never even even considered. IBM calls it ‘the backburner’. If this is true, then that is bad form.

    greg

  3. silvanogai says:

    Greg,

    the message you are referring to is old, but it contained a prediction that became true: in June 2007 the discussion about FCoE moved to the FC-BB-5 working group of T11, that has been working intensively on the topic. The last meeting was yesterday and we agreed that all the crucial aspect of FCoE are closed and that the June 2008 meeting will be the last for technical inputs and in August 2008 we will start letter ballot. A great result only one year after the work started.

    Two weeks ago we had SNW in Orlando, FL. At the FCIA boot 16 companies showed FCoE connectivity, including 6 initiator from Brocade, Broadcom, Intel, Mellanox, Emulex and Qlogic. Cisco had the Nexus 5000 FCoE switch, Finisar had a protocol analyzer, Netapp had a native FCoE storage array and more. Another great result.

    We can like it or not, but the reality in the Fortune 1000 companies is that Fibre Channel is a very well established reality and they want to move FC over Ethernet. FCoE is the perfect answer.

    iSCSI is great, may be is better than Fibre Channel, but it is different: it is SCSI over TCP and not FC over Ethernet. It has a different management model (may be better, but different), it does not support diskless booting as well as FC and the reality is that it has not gained ground fast enough to replace FC.

    Finally I have just finished a book on Data Center Networks and FCoE,
    http://www.lulu.com/content/2123054
    if you send me your address, I will be happy to send you a copy.

    May be you will change your mind ;-)

    – Silvano Gai

  4. Greg Ferro says:

    Well, its a shame that FCoE is going somewhere. Maybe we should bring back FDDI as well for another run.

    I can only hope that the market wakes up and bypasses it. _grin_

    I will take the challenge so I have purchased your book, it should arrive in a couple of weeks, and hope I will find some time to read it. If it convinces me, I will post it here, if it doesn’t, I will still be here.

  5. Brad Hedlund says:

    “Is there anyone else but Cisco supporting FCOE ?”
    Yes, actually … Broadcom, Intel, Qlogic, EMC, NetApp, and Emulex.

    As for your list of “Reasons not to use FCoE include:”
    Most of these would have perfectly valid if FCoE was proposed 5 years ago. However today the enhancements to Ethernet called Data Center Ethernet (DCE) address all of these issues.

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